(1) God commands all to repent only if He makes it possible for all to repent.
(2) God commands all to repent.
(3) Therefore, God makes it possible for all to repent.
(4) God makes it possible for all to repent only if Jesus died for all.
(5) God makes it possible for all to repent - from (3).
(6) Therefore, Jesus died for all.
(7) Limited Atonement is true only if Jesus did not die for all.
(8) Jesus died for all - from (6).
(9) Therefore, Limited Atonement is not true.
(10) 5-point Calvinism is true only if Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace and Perseverance of the Saints are true.
(11) Limited Atonement is not true - from (9).
(12) Therefore, 5-point Calvinism is not true.
Link: An Anti-Calvinist Argument (13 Feb 10)
God commands all to repent only if He makes it possible for all to repent.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't an anti-Calvinist argument, it's an anti-Augustinian argument. For it was he who said, 'Give what thou commandest and then command what thou wilt.'
Would you agree or disagree with carrying that proposition over to the other commands of God? If not, then on what basis? If so, then take this example:
God commands all to be holy only if he makes it possible for all to be holy.
That's the starting point for Wesleyan perfectionism.
ah i would actually agree that God commands all to be holy only if He makes it possible for all to be holy. maybe this makes me a wesleyan perfectionist...
ReplyDelete[of course, even as it is logically possible for all to be holy, in reality all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.]
John tells us that when Jesus came to his own they did not receive him - but that those who did, believed in him. These were not born of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God. If believing in God was something we could do ("God commands all men everywhere to believe and come to the knowledge of the truth" - therefore everyone is able to do so, per your argument) if it is possible, why was it necessary that they be born of the Spirit?
ReplyDeleteMany other arguments could be raised ... but the main flaw is in your assumption that God can't command us to do something which sin prevents us from doing. He can and does. Logic is not the final test of truth - the Bible is.
One final point please - You argument is not anti-Calvinist. It's anti-Biblical. I know at least two Arminians who would not agree with your summation. They are, I have found, more Biblical than many of their fellow Arminians.
"of course, even as it is logically possible for all to be holy..."
ReplyDeleteyou're being dishonest with yourself here. do you believe Jesus or not? He flatly says of the best examples of men (obedient rich men in jewish society) that salvation by keeping the law on their own is impossible.
Matt19:26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Rom3:19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
(1) God commands all to obey perfectly (love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself) only if He makes it possible for all to obey perfectly.
(2) Biblically, it is clear that (1) is false.
(3) Therefore, God is not bound by the judgments of human philosophy and is free to command regardless of innate ability.
2Tim2:25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth...
Repentance is a gift given by God (Acts5:31; Acts11:18), and while you might think that such a gift can be refused, Paul's teaching to Timothy here makes the gift of repentance logically equivalent to repentance itself. (if they are not repenting but opposing sound teaching, then they clearly have not been granted repentance yet - and if they are granted repentance in the future, that will resolve the issue without regard to silly imaginary Western arguments about "but what if God grants them repentance but they refuse it...")
if your ultimate foundation is human philosophy (and therefore God must consider human ability before making His commands before you will judge Him to be "good" and let him out of the dock), then put the bible aside honestly rather subordinate the Word of God to men's teaching. if you believe the bible, then accept what it teaches even if it makes you uncomfortable.
-charles
to clarify: this is the foundational argument supporting your point (1), correct?
ReplyDelete(A)Human philosophy teaches that it is evil to require something of a person which that person is incapable of doing.
which leads straight for...
(B)The God of the bible requires that men keep the law perfectly (James 2:10), yet no one (not born of a virgin) is able to do so.
(C)The God of the bible is evil.
so if you get rid of (A), the rest of this argument crumbles, right?
-charles
"on my part, i would say that God gives prevenient and resistible grace to all, enabling (though not causing) all to repent."
ReplyDeleteis there any foundational reason - apart from affirming (A) above - for saying this? (i'm convinced this accounts for 80-90% of "anticalvinist" teaching.)
again: in biblical terms, it's not just the grace to repent that God gives, but repentance itself (same goes for belief - Phil1:29). does God ever withhold repentance? why did eli's sons ultimately not repent? (1Sam2:25)
God seems to give Himself a lot of credit for our salvation in the scriptures. just be careful before you affirm "I am the master of my fate - I am the captain of my soul" as biblical.
Isa55:11 …so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
is man really "sovereign" enough to void God's word?
Ezek36:26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws…31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices.
1Cor1:26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus…
you like to think things through analytically and logically and that's a good thing. unless you really want to discuss this in detail, i'll leave you be and hope i've provided a few things to think about further. (on my side, i will go ahead and read your posts about molinism - it doesn't make much sense to me so far.)
and certainly you can't be that "anticalvinist" - i was pleased to read that you seem to be enjoying (calvinist) tim keller's writing... :)
peace-
charles
Premise 1 is wrong hence your final conclusion is wrong. God does command people to do what they cannot do. Just a simple glance at the Law and the reason for the Law in Galatians will show that God does in fact command that which could not be attained...
ReplyDeleteAdvice- read the book of Galatians then in light of what Paul says of the Law, read exodus,Leviticus & Deuteronomy.